Comments on: Time to view social media differently

By: 5 life lessons I learned from social media this week « Direct Marketing Observations

Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:13:46 +0000

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By: Mark Juleen

Mark Juleen — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 06:38:42 +0000

Marc-

I think the problem is that the Social Media consultants out there spend so much time talking about “theory” of social media. This post is actually a perfect example. Why all the controversy? It’s all just the evolution of communicating. Cavemen wrote on walls, town criers shouted, then there is mail, telegraph, telephone, radio, tv, cell phones, email, instant messaging, text messages, blackberries, social media, video conferencing, twitter, etc., etc., etc.

It continues to evolve, and there always have been and always will be early adopters and late bloomers for new communication platforms. Why does that even matter? What matters is how you apply the technology. No client really cares about the theory behind it, what they care about is that the application gets a return on their investment. Theory will just keep spinning you in circles. Why isn’t there more conversation about actual application for businesses instead of discussing the theory of how different tools are best utilized. In a social media nerd’s world that’s fun for awhile, but it’s no surprise you are becoming disenchanted with it.

My latest post takes a quote from the Great One, Wayne Gretzky. Wayne was once asked, “How are you such a great hockey player?” He responded, “I skate where the puck is going to be.” If you’re going to change it up and do it different go for it Marc! While everyone else is chasing the puck that is SM today, I’d like to see you anticipate where the puck that is SM of tomorrow is going to be.

By: Michelle Kostya

Michelle Kostya — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:01:45 +0000

I am a blogger, I write posts about a variety of things including social media. I don’t sell snake oil – or anything for that matter. Just a personal blog of my experiences LEARNING about social media. I talk about my favourite tools, how I use them etc. I also talk about being a mom. My readers are from a variety of places – but almost all are beginners or mom bloggers themselves. They, like me are behind – and could be called the “echo” I suppose. Does that make me a bad blogger? Unnecessary? I don’t think so. Personally, I find some folks who have been at it write obscurely, using buzz words I don’t yet know. Or, because I am not as knowledgeable as their base audience I am nervous to respond, comment or question them. I feel more comfortable in my own community of “new” folks. I believe my blog community is the same. They are comfortable at my level. Nothing wrong with that. There are going to be a lot of new folks talking about “social media” and I think they will be smart enough to sort through the noise and find the information they are looking for.
Many of my readers (less than you have of course, but still a decent following!) have thanked me for my posts, and have appreciated the easy manner in which I write. One reader wanted to know about how I use Google Analytics – so for her I started a 101 Series on it. I believe I help these folks, just as I journey and learn more!

By: marc meyer

marc meyer — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:49:26 +0000

@I see your point Simon. What I am starting to realize and this does go back to my point about being to close to the subject or topic is that there are n00bs every day that are entering the sandbox and I can’t dismiss them for their lack of knowing. I also can’t dismiss them if they choose to become an instant evangelist. I suppose what I’m saying and Peter is as well, is that I grow weary of seeing the same article or post on the same topic with no new perspective, that’s the echo. I know you get that and I understand that we need to write new articles about how to take SM to the next level-That’s what I’ve been saying all along. My point was really about challenging myself to reach further and to refrain “myself” from creating more reverb.

By: simonsalt

simonsalt — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:09:36 +0000

Marc
IMHO ignoring them is exactly what we should do. To acknowledge them gives credence to the snake oil. But first we have to establish what is “snake oil”. Because Peter’s article was about the echo chamber. Now if I were a new guy and I wanted to get into this biz and make a buck while a buck was there to be made, I’d make damn sure I was repeating what people like Brogan, Kawasaki,Kim,You, and anybody else that seemed to have a following was saying, because then at least I seem to know what I am talking about. The peeps to watch are the ones who aren’t saying what everyone else is saying. Because they take more work to distill, analyze and retest. As much as SM is not science, when someone expounds a new theory we should treat it the same way the scientific community does, repeat the experiment and see if we can achieve the same result – they funnily enough don’t consider that an echo chamber, they consider that establishing empirical evidence. Those of that can do this as consultants have nothing to fear from the snake oil salesmen. Will some individuals get their fingers burned – absolutely, in fact I met a potential client yesterday at a presentation I was giving who had been burned by a so called “WordPress Expert”. But for the most part the buyers are more sophisticated now, isn’t that, after all the point of SM, it gives the buyers greater transparency. Ignore the Snake Oil salesmen and lets focus on education. Heck if we all stop writing blog articles about the echo chamber and start writing articles on how to do the next steps in SM maybe the echo will dwindle?

By: marc meyer

marc meyer — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:54:32 +0000

@Simon I’m impressed with your background, you bring perspective. I agree about your point about communities however, you say, “everyone” who is trying to promote and further the great opps. that social media presents…I never said I had a problem with them and I never said I had a problem with communities. I have a problem with people that are in the “game” because it’s the sexy thing to do right now. They haven’t been doing it very long and it shows in their blog posts, in their tweets and in their ignorance. I’ve been doing “this” for awhile as well. That’s not my point. I’m just as willing as anyone to focus on community but ignoring the guy over in the corner trying to sell the “snake oil” doesn’t do us any good does it?

By: marc meyer

marc meyer — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:43:16 +0000

@usedgraymatter

Again all valid points. Communities are a great thing, warts and all? Your passion exceeds your opinion. It shows. Your clients should be glad that you have their back. My clients will have to settle for the diplomatic cynic

By: simonsalt

simonsalt — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 04:16:18 +0000

What I love most about this comment Marc is “those who came late to the game.”
What exactly do you mean by that? Late to the game? How long have you been in the “game” and exactly which element of the game. I have been in computing since the days of punch cards, when coders didn’t even see the machine they were coding on. Or do you mean Social Media, because Social Media isn’t new either, people have been being social online since before the Internet, oh yes wait I was there too, Bulletin Board Admin – yep did that. So lets figure out who is new here and who is repeating who shall we.
When you start pointing fingers you always end up pointing three back at yourself. I couldn’t agree more with usegraymatter when they talk about building community. But even that concept isn’t new. Online communities have existed for a long time and will go on way beyond what we have now. What happens next year when the tech changes again, and the early adopters freeze you out because you aren’t there on launch day to call yourself an expert? I agree there are charlatans out there who will sell snake oil to the masses in the hope of making a buck, I also agree that it is annoying having to undo their work and sometimes frustrating trying to win the trust of those who have had their fingers burned by them but simply saying to people – Stop talking about Twitter on your blog, stop retweeting Twitter How-To’s isn’t part of the solution. What will combat that is building solid communities and welcoming everyone who is trying to promote and further the great opportunities that Social Media presents to all of us.

By: usegraymatter

usegraymatter — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 03:22:04 +0000

Well, I’ve got more original thought. Sorry. I can’t help it.

I respect the diplomacy of your well-crafted reply. You will far outshine me there every time. When I feel strongly about something, my diplomacy is the first thing that runs from the room.

Clearly, I truly don’t know who these people are that you speak of…but that doesn’t really matter to me.

This is no different than ANYTHING else that comes along. A friend of mine quoted Yogi Bera to me today: “That place is too popular. Nobody goes there anymore!”
It’s as if you’re suggesting that social media was only “fresh” when there weren’t so many of us in it. Isn’t the whole point of building community to include more people. You realize that’s going to mean ALL kinds of people. The spammers. The get-rich-quickers. The “echoers.” Did you think they wouldn’t come?

Social media is not a panacea. It’s people. Doing what people do in every community. It’s why there’s office politics. It’s why there are high school cliques. It’s why there is classism, elitism, racism, and every other -ism. It’s just what people do.

And with all due respect, there are going to be A LOT more people coming to the game. So if you guys are fed up now, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

You say, “The echo may be diluting the message for those new to the game.”

Give the thinkers out here a little credit, eh? I’ve managed to parse my way through the echo just fine. I’ve found great people out here. Supportive, helpful, inclusive people. And while I work at “taking it further” (no matter how that scales for me) I want to be careful not to take myself too seriously. Something I hope that comes through in my writing.

Again. You both have my utmost respect. But this conversation is causing many to ask if we have yours.

By: marc meyer

marc meyer — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 03:02:52 +0000

Great POV’s. And I completely respect them. Let me address some of them.

-We’re fed up with people coming into the game late and repeating what they hear. Nothing new, no original thought. They then go out and call themselves consultants or bloggers and feed n00bs so much “bad” info, that we spend more time defusing what they “thought”.

-I spend as much time as you do educating clients and prospects on what is reality in social media versus what they might have heard. It’s a challenge, no doubt and some get it and still others never will.

-I guarantee that the people that I refer to or Peter does, know exactly who they are. They know they are not fooling anyone and they will continue to cut and paste, rinse and repeat.

-I know you know what I’m talking about, or maybe you really don’t but it’s true. The echo may be diluting the message for those new to the game. The point is, there is just so many ways we can talk about social media. It’s any easy target and even easier to write about should someone choose. There’s more to it.

-Our enthusiasm is just as much as yours but the space is getting crowded with some things we’ve already talked about and talked about etc etc…

-For some of us we want to take it further. I believe you do too.

Lastly, I’m very very glad that you brought your opinion and thoughts to this conversation. My thoughts are not perfect but they are mine and yours are yours. That’s what makes this space so great. Original thought….